Dana White on Fedor and Gina
By Josh Stein on Nov 19, 2008
My life has evolved (or, more appropriately, devolved) into a search for something I care about. After a conversation with Dustin last night that resulted in the inevitable conclusion that I need to improve my quality a little bit, both in the subject matter and in the writing level, Dana White delivered a little pearl right on the front pearch.
The revelation that the WEC will be opening a women’s division purely to accomodate Gina Carano isn’t surprising. She’s a supreme talent and was a huge draw for EliteXC, and Dana’s not an idiot. He knows that if there’s an opening for women’s MMA, then it can be exploited, as the quality of the product is substantial and he knows that there’s always money to be made from any sort of product the UFC can get a monopoly on, whether that’s MMA in general or simply the female subdivision.
What’s more important, though, is that Dana White has said that he is going to have his lawyer call Fedor, or, more correctly, Fedor’s management. Fedor’s managers are notoriously hardnosed, but I’m convinced that Dana is capable of getting the signing done if he swallows his pride and grabs a hold of his balls.
Fedor is far and away the greatest fighter in the world, but the more I think about it, the more I think that it might be better for his career if he abstains from the UFC at least until the resolution of the UFC heavyweight tournament. If Nogueira emerges the winner, it’s probably in his best interest (if he’s searching for the best opponents) not to a return of a division run by a guy he’s already controlled multiple times. I’m not that interested in another installment of the Fedor vs. Nogueira saga, if that’s not already obvious.
If Lesnar or Mir come out on top, perhaps Fedor might see them as legitimate enough to sign a contract and bring his WAMMA title into the UFC (or simply vacate it), but if the prospect of fighting Josh Barnett still exists, then its hard for me to say I’m excited about having it removed from the table so that Fedor can fight a still premature Brock Lesnar and a realistically unworthy Frank Mir.
Affliction is an unstabable and, at times, shady promotion, but Fedor’s best competition is there, at least at the moment.
I’m not going to say that Fedor shouldn’t go purely because of competition. If the money is right and they give him what he wants, Fedor could have great fights with plenty of guys in the UFC (Randy Couture is still viable, in my opinion, Gonzaga might be interesting, as well as Cain Velasquez and Shane Carwin as they mature a little bit) and it’s good to see that the UFC management actually wants to make them happen.
I have to say, this seemingly endless Fedor “ball licking” is starting to get downright nauseating and is beyond mythical porportions.
Its amazing to me that just last year, many experts and even die hard Fedor fans had finally realized Fedor for what he is, an egomaniacle protectionist!. Then he blows out the only legitimate top ten fighter he has faced in four years(Tim Siliva was also 2-2 in his last 4 fights!). Thats 1 legitimate opponent in 4 years.
During the same 4 years Anderson Silva’s has won 8 fights against ALL top ten fighters.
And this idiot says:
“Fedor is far and away the greatest fighter in the world”???
Has anyone ever looked up the terms “Logic” and “Reason” in websters dictionary?. Because it is idiots like you – Josh Stien, that hype this garbage far beyond reality. And its these kind of overblown, wistful articles that turn off new interest and growth for this sport.
I don’t have anything against Fedor personally. I have watched him since the beginning and have always been impressed with his skills, determination and resiliency. I also think he was very lucky to win a few of his matches and benefitted from fighting in a ring as opposed to a cage. And also from prides questionable matchmaking and the fact they never forced their champions to take on #1 contenders.
Despite that, I believe that a reasonable argument could be made that perhaps at one time, maybe three of four years ago. A good case could be made that he was the greatest fighter. Certainly the best heavyweight. But at this stage of the game, after he has made it quite clear he is not interested in taking on the cage, making 10 times the money he is now or facing the best. To still hear these pathetic rants about “best fighter in the world” is utterly ridiculous.
If you look carefully at his record, it is easy to see that he really only beat 2 really good heavyweights. Cro Cop and Big Nog, the rest are made up of lightheavyweights and middleweights, and many over the hill heavyweights that had been beaten many time before he faced them. He also showed a direct aversion to facing good heavyweights when he had many opportunities to such as Josh Barnett, Fabricio Werdum and Allistar Overeem.
So please, lets bring the story down from the “Legend” hype and see things as they are. Its getting old already. Lets see how he does with Arlovski(althought this couldnt be considered a stellar challenge since Arlovski already lost twice to Silvia and once each to Rizzo and Ricco Rodriquez), Josh Barnett and a few other real top ten heavyweights(more than 1 per year please)before we continue with this overblowing hype… ok?
Who should Fedor fight to give him the Top P4P Fighter status? Randy Couture? Brock Lesnar? Frank Mir? I think he’d easily beat all of them, if you want another opinion. Granted, he hasn’t fought many top tier guys as of late, but he’s part of a paranoid Russian camp and Dana White doesn’t want him to compete in his personal favorite sport – Combat Sambo. Arlovski is a very dangerous striker and if the fight stays standing (it won’t), it could potentially be a very exciting standup war.
I’d like to see him fight Barnett and Werdum and if Affliction can somehow stay alive after their fallout with Dana White and Co., we may see something more exciting in 2009.
Um frankly…. yes!… I don’t care what you think though, Im talking about reality. Im saying lets see it, everybody can have a thought, rarely do thoughts turn into reality though.
I believe he could have a pontentially tough time with Couture, Lesnar and Mir(Especially in the cage, where he wont fight!). So they would be a good start. And Barnett, Sergei Kharitonov, Cain Velasquez, Shane Carwin, Junior dos Santos, Gabriel Gonzaga, Cheick Kongo. There are plenty of up and coming, strong young hungry kids ready to roll. I am tired of hearing about the “russian” and “sambo” bull as well. He isn’t even winning the sambo anymore hes getting whupped the last two years. He don’t care about sambo!. And the reason he is “paranoid” is because he has seen the steady flow of pride fighters coming into the UFC and gettin whupped!!!. He knows he gonna have to clinch, he can’t play games with the ropes and referees and like he did at pride. Thats all.
And, as we can well see. Affliction is going nowhere fast, I would be willing to bet(not “think”)that affliction will gas out at its next event and close it up. They don’t have the experience, the will or the balls to compete!
So Fedor will be relegated to the powder puff tour like Cro Cop and the other fighters that weren’t smart enough to get into the UFC or stay there. One fight a year if he is lucky!
Im sorry, but lets throw out the P4P bullcrap. He isn’t, nor will he ever be able to be in the same house as Anderson Silva. Look at thier opponents win/loss records on sherdog. Andersons opponents have more than DOUBLE the wins and half the losses that Fedors do!
Guys, how much did Dana White pay you to post those comments? Nah, just kidding (kind of). Some valid points were made here, some contradict each other, and others totally inaccurate.
-”hes getting whupped the last two years”
- According to 5ouncesofpain.com “Fedor lost his first Sambo Match in 8 years to Ivanov”
- Huh?
Also, lets talk about being the best “Pound for Pound Fighter in the World”.
keywords: Fighter + World
simply put: fighter >< mixed martial artist
Fedor has also won “World” Tournaments in Sambo and part of the Olympic Russian Judo Team previously
Here are some of the “off season” accomplishments Fedor has had:
3rd 2008 World Combat Sambo Championships[76] Open weight Prague, Czech Republic
Winner 2008 Russian Combat Sambo Championship[77] 100kg+ Saint Petersburg, Russia
Winner 2007 World Combat Sambo Championships[24] Open weight Prague, Czech Republic
Winner 2007 Russian Combat Sambo Championships[78] ? Buryat Republic, Russia
Winner 2006 Russian Combat Sambo Championships[78] ? Buryat Republic, Russia
Winner 2005 World Combat Sambo Championships Heavyweight Prague, Czech Republic
Winner 2002 World Combat Sambo Championships[6] Open weight Panama City, Panama
Winner 2002 World Combat Sambo Championships Heavyweight Thessaloniki, Greece
Winner 2002 Russian Combat Sambo Championships ? Moscow, Russia
3rd 2000 Russian Combat Sambo Championships[6] ? Orenburg, Russia
Winner 1998 Russian Armed Forces Combat Sambo Championships[6] ? Russia
2nd 1998 Russian Armed Forces Combat Sambo Championships[6] Open weight Russia
3rd 1998 Russian Combat Sambo Championships[6] ? Kaliningrad, Russia
Winner 1997 European Combat Sambo Championships[8] ? Tbilisi, Georgia
Winner 1997 Russian Combat Sambo Championships[75] ? St. Petersburg, Russia
How many other “fighters” can supplement a near flawless Mixed Martial Arts record with contributions like that? I’m not saying I know of any, or that there aren’t any, but if anyone knows of any, I’d like to know.
Furthermore, Big Nog whom Fedor has beaten decsively and consistently, doesn’t meet the criterion of a PRIDE fighter getting whupped in the UFC seeing as how he is the Interim Heavyweight Champion. He will beat Mir, and destroy Lesnar, and the UFC will be left with a Heavyweight Champion that Fedor sees as no threat once so ever.
As far as the cage is concerned, Fedor learned a lesson from Mirko Filipovic when Mirko had “cage difficulties”. You can pretend that Fedor doesn’t or ever has trained in a cage before. I see the cage to be Fedor’s advantage in a fight. One of Fedor’s best skills is his ground and pound. Throw a cage into a ground and pound situation and watch the TKO percentage increase drastically. Also, Fedor has great sense of his presence in the ring or on the mat and uses those boundaries to his advantage and as part of his game plan. Fedor could also post off the cage to utilize sweeps and gain better position for GNP. The cage is simply another variable that Fedor would utilize better than his opponents just like all of his matches.
Lets talk about Anderson Silva now. Love the guy. His striking is undeniable and has a black belt from the Nog camp. But if we look at his losses, they are embarassing. A Silva got submitted a flying scissor heel hook by Ryo Chonan. A Silva lost via dq to Yushin Okami. Lost from a triangle to some random, and a decision to a random. Getting caught with any flying submission is embarassing especially as a black belt. Getting dq is even more embarassing. Not knowing the rules of what sport you are competing in is unacceptable.
Oh my god, we now have a ball licker & but sniffer who also calls himself the brain?(note the lower case “b”)
Well, yes bRAIN. Thanks for correcting that he hasn’t lost for the last “2″ years, I was off by “1″ year… wow!. But, he came in 3rd, and lost quite convincingly according to the experts.
That aside, I love the way the “FBL’s” 1st say that if I am talking about the best MMA fighter, and he is in the UFC and its Not Fedor, then Dana must be paying me. I can’t stand Dana White, and I wish there was some competition for the UFC because when they get the monopoly it will go downhill. So drop that BS willya?
Also, how you ignore all the “facts” that I point out such as records, opponents win/loss columns. The fact that he has beaten 1 top ten fighter in the last 4 years to Andersons 8!
So bRAIN, you asked for it. Im gonna give it to ya
Were going to twist and manipulate the word “fighter” to try and prove this jive point your trying to make?. Come on, are you a retard?. If Im talking about top ten fighters, who the hell am I talking about fool?
DING!, YEAH, WERE TALKING ABOUT M*M*A*!. You do remember what that stands for right?
So, that whole pile of garbage you just listed has no place in the discussion. Im talking about MMA fights and records. I don’t care if he won the bear wrestling championship since ehe was born. Doesn’t belong here.
And this:
“Furthermore, Big Nog whom Fedor has beaten decsively and consistently, doesn’t meet the criterion of a PRIDE fighter getting whupped in the UFC seeing as how he is the Interim Heavyweight Champion”
Um, bRAIN. Are you like 15 years old?. I didn’t say anything about Nog. But now that you mention it. Nog is the ONLY fighter from pride that hasn’t lost – yet. So you just helped make my point thanks
“He will beat Mir, and destroy Lesnar, and the UFC will be left with a Heavyweight Champion that Fedor sees as no threat once so ever”
This is just more jive precictions. Predictions are not facts, you do realize that right brain?. Again, Im not writing innuendo, metaphors, probabilities and opinions. Im wirting facts, do you know the websters dictionary meaning of the word “Fact”?. Again, not helpful or even reasonable for this debate.
“As far as the cage is concerned, Fedor learned a lesson from Mirko Filipovic when Mirko had “cage difficulties”. You can pretend that Fedor doesn’t or ever has trained in a cage before. I see the cage to be Fedor’s advantage in a fight. One of Fedor’s best skills is his ground and pound. Throw a cage into a ground and pound situation and watch the TKO percentage increase drastically. Also, Fedor has great sense of his presence in the ring or on the mat and uses those boundaries to his advantage and as part of his game plan. Fedor could also post off the cage to utilize sweeps and gain better position for GNP. The cage is simply another variable that Fedor would utilize better than his opponents just like all of his matches.”
Ok, this is more supposition and opinion… and its getting old brain
“Lets talk about Anderson Silva now. Love the guy. His striking is undeniable and has a black belt from the Nog camp. But if we look at his losses, they are embarassing. A Silva got submitted a flying scissor heel hook by Ryo Chonan. A Silva lost via dq to Yushin Okami. Lost from a triangle to some random, and a decision to a random. Getting caught with any flying submission is embarassing especially as a black belt. Getting dq is even more embarassing. Not knowing the rules of what sport you are competing in is unacceptable.”
Again, this is more heavily biased opinion that doesn’t have anything to do with the discussion or debate. Im sorry bRAIN. Im glad you gave yourself a nickname, because this is really pathetic and embarrassing. Hopefully, nobody knows who you are.
Are there any intelligent MMA fans out there that can give me a real challenge, please?
Anderson Silva is a remarkable talent but to say ‘During the same 4 years Anderson Silva’s has won 8 fights against ALL top ten fighters’ presses the boundary of reason. We will go back 9 fights and find that his opponents have been: Cote, Irvin, Henderson, Franklin (x2), Marquardt, Lutter, Leben and Fryklund. The Wamma site only has Franklin, Henderson and Marquardt listed in the top 10 of either the LHW or MW classes.
Fedor’s last 9 fights are against: Sylvia, Choi, Lindland, Hunt, Coleman (who UFC resigned), Zulu, Cro Cop, Kohsaka, Noguiera. He has not fought as frequently as Silva and so these fights extend further in years than the 9 fights for Silva, but still at the 4 year timeframe in your point. Sylvia and Noguiera are both ranked in HW and Cro Cop was ranked highly at the time of that fight. Matt Lindland is of course on the list, but that was a big step up in weight for him and so I will discount it. With the upcoming fight against Arvloski it will nearly even out on the score of opponents. Barnett would push it over the top for Fedor and it seems that Barnett is the one who has turned down that fight.
They are both good. Let people have their favorites. Fedor has said for himself that he does not consider himself the best p4p guy. But it is a false presentation to put forward that just because someone has fought 9 fights in the UFC that it has been ‘top competition’. That is just Dana the promoter talking and I accept it only with a grain of salt.
Well Alright, it is getting better now
I think your trying to split atoms with this line of reasoning,
But, regarding the ranking of fighters. There is no established “Top” recognized ranking orginization. While there are many respectable sites and sport news agencys listing top tens in every weight class, any attempt to make them “head and shoulders” above the others would be based on conjecture and personal opinion. Despite that, many of us know who the top ten MMA fighters are if we just think about the division they are in, its fairly easy. The order might be up for debate, but generally we know who a top ten fighter is and isn’t, regardless of orginization he is fighting in.
Now, your very skewed reasoning is listing one site – Wamma, at the CURRENT rankings. Your not looking back 4 years at each opponent at the time of the respective fights. As far as I know. All of the opponents(Im counting franklin twice and not counting fryklund in coming up with 8 opponents in 4 years)were ranked AT THE TIMES of the fights in the top ten of MOST sites such as MMA weekly, Yahoo, Sherdog and of course the UFC. In fact, several were #1
Now, your right, Nog was an obvious top ten HW on 12/31/04 when he fought Fedor. But, you miss the fact that by the time he fights Arlovski, it will be over 4 years, with only one top ten HW!. During which in the same time period Silva defeated all 8 opponents that were all ranked in the top ten. Its a fact!, do we really need to do this sticky bit routine?. Why don’t you all quit splitting hairs?.
Even if he did win against 2 top 10 opponents and beat a 3rd and 4th, he WOULD still only be halfway there(and thats stretching more of the “opinion”, “prediction” and “theories” again).
That is whats called “no contest” my friends. Its like comparing nuts to doughnuts because it has a similar name. It don’t work!
“With the upcoming fight against Arvloski it will nearly even out on the score of opponents. Barnett would push it over the top for Fedor and it seems that Barnett is the one who has turned down that fight”
This is more conjecture and opinion. Thats 2 big “ifs” that haven’t happend yet. And at the rate he is fighting?(2 x a year if your lucky?). Again, facts please.
Look people, I don’t know what kind of cologne fedor puts on his but and balls that makes you come out of the woodwork to come up with these pathetic arguments. But look at this. Yahoo sports does a top ten P4P ranking, updated monthly. it is generally recognized by the majority of the MMA writers as the standard consensus with no alleginaces to the corporate factotum. Look at it will ya? – http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/leaguepage/dd-mmarankings112008;_ylt=AuZ2kC8fX_o4zgLpYTyWzfY9Eo14?prov=yhoo&type=lgns
It is made up of 14 well known jounalists and experts with long, real world experience in the game. And they aren’t on any payrolls.
Please, before you get your testosterone in a knot because you think Im beating up on Fedor. Realize something, I like Fedor and I like the way he fights, I always have. He isn’t my favorite fighter, but I think he is the best HW. Not P4P. You know what else?, I like watching Anderson Silva too, great fighter and great attitude, very gracious, humble and admirable. He isn’t my favorite fighter either, but I believe his RECORD and the FACTS support that he is the CURRENT P4P.
My FAVORITE fighter is BJ Penn. But again, Im talking about facts, not favorites OK?
Oh and please. Stop with the Dana White. Im not Dana White, Im Glen Earl Brown Jr, LONG time MMA fan. Brown Belt in Jiu Jitsu. Masters in Social Philosophy, Ph.d in Psychology. Father of 2. Never met Dana, don’t want to, don’t like Dana. Wouldn’t take any money from him if he offered. In fact, I wish that I could have an MMA match with him. I think I could beat his ass. And I would do it for free!.
Again, people
This is a debate and discussion
No favorites
No emotion
No theory
No conjecture
No working for Dana, UFC, Sherdog, Tapout, Wamma, Affliction etc
No paranoia
We are presenting Facts about a subject
Please, someone write that has a better than 2nd grade understanding of English(the study of English, not the language)
Ok*?
“Look people, I don’t know what kind of cologne fedor puts on his but and balls that makes you come out of the woodwork to come up with these pathetic arguments”. Comments like this do not indicate that you are interested in a reasoned discussion. If you can get a Ph.d in Psychology and not realize that then that says something. You also have misspelled butt twice and given that any elementary student can probably spell it correctly I wouldn’t be laying out my non-related credentials to bolster any MMA case I am trying to make.
I make no claims about whether I think Fedor is the number 1 p4p fighter. I simply state that Anderson Silva’s record over his past 9 fights is not substantially different. WAMMA was not presented as being authoritative, but it was more substantive than the non-reference you made. You are being emotional here and doing so because you want to have a disagreement more than a discussion.
I regularly read the yahoo MMA page and am aware of their current rankings. When Fedor was number 1 would you have concurred based off their opinion on the matter? If not, then if they were wrong for the prior years, why do they suddenly have your respect now?
Dana is only brought into this because as a promoter his opinion on who the best fighter is p4p is highly jaded. It is a marketing push. If it happens to coincide with reality then it is simply coincidence. If Fedor suddenly joined the UFC I’m sure that Dana would not be denigrating him as he currently does. All of a sudden he would be the MOST dominant HW in the world and would suddenly have faced real competition because in the past he beat Nog, Sylvia, Coleman and Cro Cop etc. That is simply the promoting business. You build up your guys and take shots at the others. I don’t look down on White for doing that.
I would love to go back and be able to compare the top 10 list for a fighter over time. I would be happy to have a resource to show me week by week or month by month where people were rated at the time of various fights. Sans evidence though I will have to believe that Leben, Lutter, Cote have never been considered top 10 in their divisions and confess to not having heard of Fryklund but at 14-9 I doubt he was a top 10 either. Provide links to the following showing the rankings of these fighters at the time they fought Silva “Now, your very skewed reasoning is listing one site – Wamma, at the CURRENT rankings. Your not looking back 4 years at each opponent at the time of the respective fights. As far as I know. All of the opponents(Im counting franklin twice and not counting fryklund in coming up with 8 opponents in 4 years)were ranked AT THE TIMES of the fights in the top ten of MOST sites such as MMA weekly, Yahoo, Sherdog and of course the UFC. In fact, several were #1″
I confess to not understanding what about the initial blog brought this response from you. The author simply claimed that Fedor might get better fights in Affliction. Considering that is your main knock against the guy I would think that you would be agreeing with the author rather than taking a shot a ‘nutthuggers’.
As for Barnett see the following link http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/mma/10/02/barnett.fedor.off/index.html it shows that Barnett certainly did not push for the fight against Fedor and did not want it under whatever terms were in discussion. I have found nothing regarding Fedor’s thoughts on the issue but it is a cited situation and not conjecture or opinion.
You seem like a bull that sees red at the mention of Fedor and then wants to see how many times you can drop the word nuts, but(t) and balls in your post with additional insults as you can think of them. P4P will always be a opinion question and will always be jaded in interpretation by fans and promoters. Not something to really get worked up about. If Fedor is the number 2 fighter in the world per the yahoo post does it really bother you so much if some people think he is number 1?
If you compare the won/loss records of the opponents over the past 9 fights for each (including the losses these opponents took to Fedor and Silva) you find that Fedor’s opponents had a combined record of 148-45 and Silva’s opponents a combined record of 153-41. Win percentage for Fedor’s opponents 76.6% and win percentage for Silva’s 78.8%. The advantage goes to Silva on this metric. But it is hardly a dominating margin indicating that Fedor has fought no one or that Silva’s competition is so much better. Perhaps the more generations you carry this out then you can see the relative quality of these guys, but in professional fights that these MMA guys have been involved with they had fairly similar results.
The information above was compiled using wikipedia for convenience. Concede that accuracy of that site may be questionable at times. Feel free to cite other sources if anyone is interested.
Well, I have to say you started off pretty fair, but in this long rant you crashed and burned my friend.
Again, your talking about a boatload of stuff that isn’t related to the discussion or the debate, and by your own admission you obviously didn’t even read what it is about.
“Look people, I don’t know what kind of cologne fedor puts on his but and balls that makes you come out of the woodwork to come up with these pathetic arguments”. Comments like this do not indicate that you are interested in a reasoned discussion. If you can get a Ph.d in Psychology and not realize that then that says something. You also have misspelled butt twice and given that any elementary student can probably spell it correctly I wouldn’t be laying out my non-related credentials to bolster any MMA case I am trying to make.”
Your opinion of my comments mean nothing, your idea of a reasoned discussion means nothing. It is based on conjecture, so Ill leave it at that. Attempts at insult because all your points were invalidated are going to make you look even worse. You do realize that pointing out minor mispellings on the internet is quite petty and antiquated don’t you?. Leaving a letter off of a word or jumbling text is indicative of the fact that I am in a hurry and am more concerned with the message as opposed to the meaning. It has nothing to do with education or intellgence, as much as you would like it to. Should we proofread your text my friend?, and validate or determine your abilities from it?. How about your sentence structure?. So that is a heap, really man.
Again, if you were truly invloved in the discussion, you would realize that the listing of crendentials had nothing to do with “bolstering” the opinion. It was directly related to the points regarding Dana White. It shows much about you that you would start by 1st making a few good points, then resort to taking everything out of context because you don’t like or agree with what Im writing.
“I make no claims about whether I think Fedor is the number 1 p4p fighter. I simply state that Anderson Silva’s record over his past 9 fights is not substantially different.”
Ok, well that is what Im talking about. Simple facts, forget about rankings. Fedor fights 2 good, competetive HW’s with good records and wins. Anderson fights 8 in the same time frame. Thats not substantially different?
“WAMMA was not presented as being authoritative, but it was more substantive than the non-reference you made.”
And what non reference are you referring to?, and according to whom, you?.
“You are being emotional here and doing so because you want to have a disagreement more than a discussion.”
Again, thanks for your opinion. But how does it apply to the discussion?, focus here.
“I regularly read the yahoo MMA page and am aware of their current rankings. When Fedor was number 1 would you have concurred based off their opinion on the matter? If not, then if they were wrong for the prior years, why do they suddenly have your respect now?”
Hey you mispelled concured, Just kidding(see how silly that is?). But seriously, Yes, I agreed with their ranking then and now. Wasted text.
“Dana is only brought into this because as a promoter his opinion on who the best fighter is p4p is highly jaded. It is a marketing push. If it happens to coincide with reality then it is simply coincidence. If Fedor suddenly joined the UFC I’m sure that Dana would not be denigrating him as he currently does. All of a sudden he would be the MOST dominant HW in the world and would suddenly have faced real competition because in the past he beat Nog, Sylvia, Coleman and Cro Cop etc. That is simply the promoting business. You build up your guys and take shots at the others. I don’t look down on White for doing that.”
Ok, no argument there. Whats the point?
I just think he is an asshole that forgets what got him there. Just my opinion….
“I would love to go back and be able to compare the top 10 list for a fighter over time. I would be happy to have a resource to show me week by week or month by month where people were rated at the time of various fights.”
Me too!
“Sans evidence though I will have to believe that Leben, Lutter, Cote have never been considered top 10 in their divisions and confess to not having heard of Fryklund but at 14-9 I doubt he was a top 10 either. Provide links to the following showing the rankings of these fighters at the time they fought Silva”
Ok, well you can believe what you want, but you will probably look blind
Chris Leben was on a 6 fight streak, his previous 6 opponents:
Luigi Fioravanti
Jorge Rivera
Edwin Dewees
Patrick Cote
Jason Thacker
Benji Radach
Travis Lutter, while not my favorite fighter, was on a 3 fight streak, ranked #9 in the middleweight division according to mmaweekly and won the Ultimate Fighter.
3 fight streak:
Patrick Cote
Cedric Marks
Jose Landi-Jons
Patrick Cote was the number 1 UFC middleweight contender. Largely due to the fact that Silva cleaned out the hen house!. But also because Cote was on a 6 fight win streak over:
Ricardo Almeida
Drew McFedries
Kendall Grove
Jason Day
Scott Smith
I already nixed Fryklund out of the discussion 2 post ago. Enough Fryklund already?
“I confess to not understanding what about the initial blog brought this response from you. The author simply claimed that Fedor might get better fights in Affliction. Considering that is your main knock against the guy I would think that you would be agreeing with the author rather than taking a shot a ‘nutthuggers’”
Ok, well maybe you should read my first response to the blog(the one at the top?). Its quite clear. It didn’t have anything to do with where Fedor will get better fights so figure out what your talking about before your open your pie hole next time.
“As for Barnett see the following link http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/mma/10/02/barnett.fedor.off/index.html it shows that Barnett certainly did not push for the fight against Fedor and did not want it under whatever terms were in discussion. I have found nothing regarding Fedor’s thoughts on the issue but it is a cited situation and not conjecture or opinion.”
Again, my friend. Please focus!. I could care less about Barnett!, my reference to Barnett was past-tense. It is well know that in Pride, where they both fought for many years at the same time. That Fedor avoided a match with Barnett(amongst others)and chose considerably lesser opponents instead. A moot point!
“You seem like a bull that sees red at the mention of Fedor and then wants to see how many times you can drop the word nuts, but(t) and balls in your post with additional insults as you can think of them. P4P will always be a opinion question and will always be jaded in interpretation by fans and promoters. Not something to really get worked up about. If Fedor is the number 2 fighter in the world per the yahoo post does it really bother you so much if some people think he is number 1?”
Ok, thats an interesting analysis and opinion. Interesting as well how I drop a few metaphorical references that are used quite often on the internet to descirbe the die hard Fedor fans and you key in on them pretty hard, even adding some I didn’t write, what are you trying to say here?, or is this some fetish that is gettin you hot?. Please, take it elsewhere if you can my friend.
And again, P4P will be subject to certain levels of Opinion. Yes, but as stated at the top(which you obviously started flappin your yap, without reading). I took issue with the continuous proclamations such as “Fedor is far and away the greatest fighter in the world”,(thats right duckworth, what the entire discussion was predicated on, DING!). Thats all, and BTW, P4P in MMA, should be the same as P4P in boxing. It should be based on achievements in the sport. Win/Loss records, opponents, classes and true rankings.
Greatest P4P Boxer of all time – Sugar Ray Robinson
Greatest Heavyweight Boxer of all time – Muhammad Ali
Greatest P4P Boxer right now – Manny Pacquiao
Greatest MMA fighter of all time?
Well see
jSinSaTx says: “If you compare the won/loss records of the opponents over the past 9 fights for each (including the losses these opponents took to Fedor and Silva) you find that Fedor’s opponents had a combined record of 148-45 and Silva’s opponents a combined record of 153-41. Win percentage for Fedor’s opponents 76.6% and win percentage for Silva’s 78.8%. The advantage goes to Silva on this metric. But it is hardly a dominating margin indicating that Fedor has fought no one or that Silva’s competition is so much better. Perhaps the more generations you carry this out then you can see the relative quality of these guys, but in professional fights that these MMA guys have been involved with they had fairly similar results.
The information above was compiled using wikipedia for convenience. Concede that accuracy of that site may be questionable at times. Feel free to cite other sources if anyone is interested.”
Ok, thats great information but how does it apply to the discussion?
Im not talking about the last 9 opponents, Im talking about opponents in the last 4 years. See, in order to be called the “greatest fighter” we need to discuss what has been done “lately”. A fighter needs to be “active”, right?
I would argue though that overall, Silvas wins over opponents would be of higher caliber in general than would Fedor’s
Silva has not only won, but dominated Franklin, Henderson, Nate Marquardt, Jeremy Horn, Roan Carneiro, Carlos Newton, Hayato Sakurai, Yushin Okami(until the DQ).
Fedor on the other hand, had Cro-Cop, Big Nog, Herring and Silvia. Of these only Cro-Cop and Nog could have been considered a real challenge. Since Herring and Silvia had already been beaten many times by lesser heavyweights. Coleman, Randleman, Fujita, Goodridge and the like were all on the definate downside of their career and had been beaten many times by much lesser fighters.
Sobral, Lindland & Arona were seriously undersized and really don’t apply.
Silva carries 205 pretty good. Fedor could easily come down to around 215 and I would love to see such a match. Am I going to make a prediction?, no. But I would love to watch it. Will it happen?, I doubt it
‘Again, your talking about a boatload of stuff that isn’t related to the discussion or the debate, and by your own admission you obviously didn’t even read what it is about.’ Your opinion, but how does it apply to the discussion.
‘I would argue though that overall, Silvas wins over opponents would be of higher caliber in general than would Fedor’s’ Your opinion (see I can do this too).
‘Silva carries 205 pretty good. Fedor could easily come down to around 215 and I would love to see such a match. Am I going to make a prediction?, no. But I would love to watch it. Will it happen?, I doubt it” Your opinion… (boring isn’t it)
‘Im not talking about the last 9 opponents, Im talking about opponents in the last 4 years. See, in order to be called the “greatest fighter” we need to discuss what has been done “lately”. A fighter needs to be “active”, right?’ 9 fights or 9 years, both are fairly arbitrary times to pick and both are pretty close to being in the same time frame. If you look over the 4 years you find Anderson Silva has 2 losses during that period. If you were trying to argue based on the last year and I picked 9 fights then there would be a substantial difference. Silva has been more active obviously which is why he moved up to number 1 with no objections from me. I hope to see more from Fedor in MMA as opposed to other sports. I wish all the fighters would find their way to the ring more.
I don’t comment on spelling unless someone brings up how intelligent they must be for holding degrees that bear no relevance to the discussion. I wouldn’t have commented at all if you had left your claim to your skill at martial arts.
“Also, how you ignore all the “facts” that I point out such as records, opponents win/loss columns. The fact that he has beaten 1 top ten fighter in the last 4 years to Andersons 8!” Your non referenced comment. Complaining that WAMMA was inadequate when you previously had appealed to nothing but your own thoughts on the level of competition invalidates your complaint. If you had said “according to x body of independent experts at http://www.com Silva’s opponents were ranked higher’ then you would have cause to compare that board to WAMMA. Your opinion on the quality of the opponents is simply that, an opinion. Comparing Yahoo to WAMMA is a better attempt that you finally chose to make.
“Ok, thats an interesting analysis and opinion. Interesting as well how I drop a few metaphorical references that are used quite often on the internet to descirbe the die hard Fedor fans and you key in on them pretty hard, even adding some I didn’t write, what are you trying to say here?, or is this some fetish that is gettin you hot?. Please, take it elsewhere if you can my friend.”
Just wondering why someone crying for facts and discussion laces his posts with insults, emotion and opinion. It is irrational, but that is fine… it is the internet.
The only fact you have is that currently Silva is ranked over Fedor in the Yahoo poll and that the Yahoo poll is a well regarded one. You still have no citations on the fighters you claim were in the top 10 with the exception of the ones everyone would agree were, Franklin, Hendo and Marquardt.
You say the following after my comparison of W/L records, ‘Ok, thats great information but how does it apply to the discussion?’ But then in the post prior make this point ‘Thats all, and BTW, P4P in MMA, should be the same as P4P in boxing. It should be based on achievements in the sport. Win/Loss records, opponents, classes and true rankings.’ You also made this point in one of your earlier posts “Im sorry, but lets throw out the P4P bullcrap. He isn’t, nor will he ever be able to be in the same house as Anderson Silva. Look at thier opponents win/loss records on sherdog. Andersons opponents have more than DOUBLE the wins and half the losses that Fedors do!” So calculate and cite your number like I did. It speaks to an aspect of the opponents which is quantifiable. I would think it would be fairly evident how looking at that statistic would relate to the fight. I’m sure if Fedor’s indicated that his opponents had a record of 10-160 we would both agree that his opponents were fairly weak without further investigation. If Silva’s opponents were 10-160 would you think they had been top 10? It is simply a piece of evidence. It can go into the hat along with the comparative won/loss record of Fedor and Silva and the relative rankings of various sporting authorities. Taken as a whole most would concede that they are very close to each other and be content to let the future play out.
“Again, my friend. Please focus!. I could care less about Barnett!, my reference to Barnett was past-tense. It is well know that in Pride, where they both fought for many years at the same time. That Fedor avoided a match with Barnett(amongst others)and chose considerably lesser opponents instead. A moot point!” Cite or withdraw. I brought Barnett up as part of my agreement with the initial article as well as to lay the case for where Fedor logically will have the opportunity to pick up the wins that will close the apparent gap some have between him and Silva. You retort that my statement on Barnett was opinion. So I cite the article. You state something you claim to be common knowledge minus any verification. Feel free to get busy with citing… or not.
You state things like this “Coleman, Randleman, Fujita, Goodridge and the like were all on the definate downside of their career and had been beaten many times by much lesser fighters. Sobral, Lindland & Arona were seriously undersized and really don’t apply.” Yet you seem to have no problem with Yahoo having Fedor ranked as number 2 in the world. That does not make much sense. “But seriously, Yes, I agreed with their ranking then and now. Wasted text.” And I fail how it is wasted text to try and ascertain your feelings on the rating body you brought into the conversation.
So, my very focused friend and nixer of all things Frykylund for whatever reason… we have each had our say. Others can judge the merits of the case as they will. Perhaps we can rejoin the conversation after Jan when at least one of the gentlemen will have had another fight and there will be new information to digest. Until then continue the fight against nuthuggery, balls and butts!
“Your opinion of my comments mean nothing, your idea of a reasoned discussion means nothing. It is based on conjecture, so Ill leave it at that. Attempts at insult because all your points were invalidated are going to make you look even worse. You do realize that pointing out minor mispellings on the internet is quite petty and antiquated don’t you?. Leaving a letter off of a word or jumbling text is indicative of the fact that I am in a hurry and am more concerned with the message as opposed to the meaning. It has nothing to do with education or intellgence, as much as you would like it to. Should we proofread your text my friend?, and validate or determine your abilities from it?. How about your sentence structure?. So that is a heap, really man.” I do not point out spelling unless someone has already introduce the irrelevant nature of their educational background. If you had left your qualifications at having a background in Brazilian Jujitsu I would not have said a thing. As for invalidating my points… opinion on your part (see I can do that too). You are the one hung up on Dana White. Simply pointing out that Dana White’s opinion on the issue is jaded is hardly the same as comparing you to him. I suppose we can agree to use each others opinions and discussion criteria for toilet paper, if only it could save some trees.
You continue to state that Anderson Silva’s opponents are in the top 10. Yet in your initial post on the issue you did not cite a source for this contention. When I bring up WAMMA you claim that it lacks the standing of others. It still has more standing than your opinion, regardless of how accurate you think that opinion may be. I make this point and then you don’t see the relevance of it. Not surprising, but mildly amusing.
In reference to yahoo “Yes, I agreed with their ranking then and now. Wasted text.” Your opinion (see it is annoying isn’t it). Not sure how it is wasted text to try and understand your feelings regarding the rating body you brought up or the validity of their opinion on Fedor being number 2 in the world.
In response to my W/L post you state this, “Ok, thats great information but how does it apply to the discussion?” I think it speaks to this “Im sorry, but lets throw out the P4P bullcrap. He isn’t, nor will he ever be able to be in the same house as Anderson Silva. Look at thier opponents win/loss records on sherdog. Andersons opponents have more than DOUBLE the wins and half the losses that Fedors do!” and this “P4P in MMA, should be the same as P4P in boxing. It should be based on achievements in the sport. Win/Loss records, opponents, classes and true rankings.” So, feel free to cite the numbers you calculated up. I picked the 4 year/9 fight area since that seemed to be where we were bouncing around at.
Once again… cite something. I cited the Barnett situation in reply to your opinion that statements regarding Barnett were conjecture. Then you drop this blurb Again, my friend. “Please focus!. I could care less about Barnett!, my reference to Barnett was past-tense. It is well know that in Pride, where they both fought for many years at the same time. That Fedor avoided a match with Barnett(amongst others)and chose considerably lesser opponents instead. A moot point!”. If it is such common knowledge then please cite something that indicates it. And if Barnett doesn’t matter then why keep responding to statements about him?
“Ok, thats an interesting analysis and opinion. Interesting as well how I drop a few metaphorical references that are used quite often on the internet to descirbe the die hard Fedor fans and you key in on them pretty hard, even adding some I didn’t write, what are you trying to say here?, or is this some fetish that is gettin you hot?. Please, take it elsewhere if you can my friend.” Simply find it interesting that someone who wants facts and discussion laces his posts with insults and opinion. It is irrational, but that is ok, this is the internet.
“Im not talking about the last 9 opponents, Im talking about opponents in the last 4 years. See, in order to be called the “greatest fighter” we need to discuss what has been done “lately”. A fighter needs to be “active”, right?” Either way is fairly arbitrary. If you wanted to compare 1 year and I picked 9 fights we would be far apart. In the 4 year period you pick Silva lost twice. Perhaps you want to choose a different time frame. I concede that Silva has fought more frequently as of late and that I hope to see Fedor, and all fighters for that matter, fight more frequently.
So my very focused friend and nixer of all things Fryklund I think we have each had our say here and that we can leave it to others to judge the relative merits. Perhaps we can rejoin the conversation after January when at least one of the gentlemen in question has had another fight and there are new facts to ingest.
The internet gods ate my first reply to this… so, you get my second and less motivated effort. Though to either I’m sure the reply would be 1) your opinion 2) focus 3) not relevant to my ideas of the discussion 4) opinion…
Anyway, fun was had by all. Peace out Dr. Phil.
Well, Im sorry my friend. But you have gone in so many directions that your barely making sense and none of this is really furthering or offerring any real help to the notion that Fedor is #1. I don’t really have the energy for futility. I get a fairly good dose of it at work every day, the difference being $350 an hour.
Not to repeat myself, but I responded to the original blog which contended that Fedor was “without a doubt the greatest fighter”. I guess based on his recent demolition of a HW that left the UFC after losing 2 of his last 4 fights(The 2nd “quality” opponent he has had in 4 years).
I think the statement was ridiculous and I believe I have proven that.
So far your the most opposition to the position that has come forth. Sad
I think you made a valiant effort, but you got rolled up in the details a little too much my friend. Maybe next time
Oh, I did go ahead and calculate this… since I know you don’t have the time to do it, what with the opportunity cost of 350.00 an hour… and I wouldn’t want anyone to be acting under false information.
“Im sorry, but lets throw out the P4P bullcrap. He isn’t, nor will he ever be able to be in the same house as Anderson Silva. Look at thier opponents win/loss records on sherdog. Andersons opponents have more than DOUBLE the wins and half the losses that Fedors do!”
You are either disingenuous, incapable of basic math or like to talk with hyperbole. Silva’s opponents over all of his fights have a record of 444-205. Fedor’s opponents have a record of 470-245 of all of his fights (http://www.sherdog.com note that the NC for Fedor/Nog was discounted). The relative percentage of win/loss is 68.4% for Silva and 65.7% for Fedor. Only in the soft sciences would this be considered double the wins and half the losses. Good thing your rates aren’t charged for arithmetic. 80 of the numbers in Silva’s win column come from his fight against Jeremy Horn. Not particularly important, but an interesting bit of info for those who follow such things.
Your inability to follow the multiple responses to your posts is more of a problem for you. I certainly hope your patients aren’t burdened by your deficiencies (man, this insulting thing is fun, right on DOC!). And as my post never were focused on proving that Fedor was number 1 but rather simply indicating that the case for Anderson Silva is not significantly stronger (and that your quest for a rational discussion isn’t aided by unfounded opinions, failure to cite, false information and name calling) you apparently suffer from at least as much an inability to follow a topic as you claim that I do.
Only a clown of the first order could make a point or pose a query and then claim it is irrelevant or dismiss the concept when it is addressed. I’m sure that was the debating style in whatever elite institution of learning you would claim to descend from (damn… I was so wrong about this insult thing!!!)
Oh, and one for the road “I think the statement was ridiculous and I believe I have proven that.” your opinion.
Isn’t it funny, we know they are flies, but we still have to swat.
I’m sorry too my friend… I’m sure we could have whispered sweet insults to each other for at least another page or two.
HEY FOOL, EARLE IS RIGHT. THE TOPIC WAS FEDOR AND THE GREATEST FIGHTER, YOU HAVE GONE INTO A BIG WAD OF DRIBBLE FOR NO REASON. A CLOWN IS SOMEONE LIKE YOU THAT HAS THE TIME TO WRITE AND GET INTO ALL THESE MINUTE DETAILS AND RESEARCH ALL THIS CRAP, THEN ADMIT THAT YOU AGREE WITH HIM AND MAKE IT ABOUT HIM AND YOU, IF YOUR ENVIOUS OF SOMEONES EDUCATION AND AND JOB AND KEEP MAKING INSULTS AND CHANGING THE TOPIC TO HIS JOB, WHY DON’T YOU GET OUT OF THOSE 6, 7 DAY OLD SOILED SHORTS AND TELL US WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT YOU OTHER THAN YOU CAN RUN YOUR MOUTH AND MAKE THIS BLOG COMPLETELY UNREADABLE?
SinSaTx, your a idiot. how u would expect any mma fan to follow this bunch of bull***t or even care is beyond me. its pretty simple. anderson has been whippin alot more. hi quality ass for the last 4 years that fedor. everybody knows it. who cares about all these little details excepet and ugly, fat bald guy with a vienna sausage weenie like you fool?
Yeah j sin you lost me long ago…. bro, where do you get all this sh^it?
and just because he a phd doesn’t mean he can’t get fed up with all you guys fedor this, fedor greatest that…. and if your gonna say that the only good fighters he fought from the last 4 yr are hendo, franklin and marqart then all you can really say were good from fedor the last 4 yr was bignog. that mean silva is at least 3 times better right to me. plus, fedor is unexciting, lay and pray, ground pound and sub. silva is dynamic, striking, muay thai and beat hendo and luter at their own game on the ground. hes right… right now there is no contest and if you read the quote above -far & away the greatest fighter- then that is ridiculous. j sin you tryin to make all this other sh^t issues and nobody cares. get a life.
your a tool syntax, you didn’t understand the topic and went into five different topics and some kind of mild personal effort to match your pathetic existence with someone that is obvioulsy more successful in life than you, more educated and can probably slap you around like a hoe in a phone booth. go away
jSinSaTx,
Why in the world are you even responding to Glen Earl? Seriously. Do you even believe he believes what he is saying? He is just here to tick people off. You have convincingly proven Glenn “I got cut by the Texans” Earl is delusional if he believes what he is saying. No one who has watched Fedor and Anderson fight could possibly believe there is any substantial difference in their fighting skill. Both of these guys stand out from the crowd. Ignore him.
YEAH?, WELL TONE “AIN’T GOT NO MONEY CAUSE IM A 2 HIT WONDER AND BLEW ALL OUT MY NOSE” LOC, HE OBVIOSLY DIDN’T IGNORE HIM, WHICH MEANS ERL HAS FREE RENT IN HIS BRAIN WETHER HE LIKES IT OR NOT!!!… HAHAHAHA!
AND YOU DIDN’T READ WATS GOIN ON BECAUSE HE WROTE SEVERAL TIMES THAT THEY ARE BOTH GREAT FIGHTERS AT THE TOP OF ANY LIST. AND YOUR WRITIN TO A DEAD BLOG BECAUSE NOBODY CARES AND THEY HAVE ALL TURNED OFF THERE “TOPIC” NOTIFICATION SO PLEASDE FIND YOURSELF SOME NEW DRAWERS TOO WILL YA, I CAN SMELL YA FROM HERE!