Unworthy: Brock Lesnar’s Title Shot
By Josh Stein on Sep 03, 2008
There are 18 fighters in the UFC heavyweight division, and every single one has more wins than Brock Lesnar.
Yet, somehow, with a UFC record of 1-1, coming off a decision win, Lesnar gets the opportunity to fight for a heavyweight title. Nevermind that Frank Mir beat him, nevermind that Fabricio Werdum has won two in a row (which is twice as many) over top contenders in Gonzaga and Vera, nevermind that Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira is the Interim title holder.
Lesnar certainly isn’t the least qualified fighter to take on Randy Couture, the returning heavyweight champion, but he is most definitely not the best choice. While it’s hard to fault Joe Silva for his matchmaking, putting together two world class wrestlers, it’s not as though Randy was his only other option (as far as I’m concerned, Cain Velasquez would have been a more interesting matchup, as would Shane Carwin).
I don’t like Brock Lesnar very much, and it’s not a secret, but the truth is, even if I leave my feelings out of it, this seems massively disrespectful to the guys who are working to earn their title shots. I’m well aware that there’s nobody in the heavyweight division on a five or six fight win streak (which is how we like contenders to be in other divisions), but to pick a guy only three fights into his professional career, one fight removed from a loss that wasn’t even controversial, is like saying “Hey, I know that these other guys have been building up their careers for years, but look at how big Brock’s muscles are.”
Shane Carwin, honestly, wouldn’t be a good contender either (as much as I think that’d be a better fight than Brock, since Carwin has much better standup and legit submissions), because he hasn’t been built up, and I understand that since Frank Mir and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira are shooting a season of The Ultimate Fighter that’s out of the question.
I’m basically talking about Fabricio Werdum, a fighter with finishes over two of the top contenders in the division. Heath Herring was not a contender, and nobody made that mistake. Brock Lesnar beat a fighter that had been beaten twice already in the UFC, and it’s not as though he did something different. He won a decision that, while physically more dominant than the others, doesn’t mean that much.
If any other fighter showed up in the UFC with only one win (and that win came over an opponent who he had 80 pounds on) and then lost, we’d call that myth busted and move on.
If any other fighter claimed a title shot with one decision win in the UFC, we’d call him an arrogant ass and go on looking at the real contenders.
We are letting the Lesnar matchup go, we’re letting Lesnar take his title shot, not because he deserves it, but because we understand why the UFC is doing it, and that’s been our problem for a while now.
The matchup with Randy and Lesnar is going to have a huge draw, that card is going to be massive and the pay-per-view numbers are going to make a statement. Because of that, I’m going to be one of the only people on the internet talking about how stupid this matchup is.
Don’t get me wrong, I like exposure as much as the next guy, but I like it better when a high profile bout should happen, not just when it does. I like my title contenders to work for it.
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I could not agree with you more! t is all about the money. The sad thing about it is, is that there will be tons of fans that think Lesnar should be favored and will win hands down….
Yeah, it’ll make Lesnar’s second career loss that much sweeter.
I think that if Brock Lesnar had just kept doing wrestling and not done WWE people like you would’nt make such a big deal out of it.
Considering how thin the heavyweight division is, it’s not that big of a deal. Should Brock win and get the title so soon, well good for him he got a shortcut but still proved against arguably the best fighter in the world (I put Fedor and Randy in a tie at #1 until they fight) that he belongs in the big leagues.
If Brock loses, Randy (and mma in general) will get tons of new fans and recognition from everybody that tuned in just for Brock. In my mind it’s win-win for the UFC and win-win for every kind of mma fans.
I think too much people on the internet pride themselves in being mma purists. I’d be pissed if Kimbo was getting a title shot but IMO Brock is legit even though is biggest asset is his imposing frame.
Suparaf, if Brock had kept doing wrestling and not gone to the WWE, no one would care about him. He wouldn’t be such a big deal.
If there is an active fighter who gets screwed over, it doesn’t really matter how thick or thin the division is, it matters.
I agree that this can only be good for the expansion of the sport, but it’s not good for the division, and there are ways to get Brock Lesnar to draw fans without destroying the already shaky integrity of the division.
This idea that Brock is legit is ridiculous. He has one win in the UFC heavyweight division, and it wasn’t that impressive (he didn’t even finish). Carwin is far more legit than he is, not to mention the vets like Werdum.
I’m not saying Lesnar is the new Fedor but I really do think he is legit. Randy probably would not have signed to fight Werdum. As good as he is, Randy only has a few fights left and it looks like he chose (at least partly that’s for sure) that fighting Brock meant something.
Let’s face it, Werdum vs Couture makes sense but not enough people care about Werdum. It’s not one of the ’superfights’ the UFC or Randy want to have before capn America retires for good.
I think you’re right about that, and I’m a little surprised that Randy signed to fight Lesnar. Still, I only call fighters legit when they’ve displayed it.
I agree with you, I just think it’s stupid that we’re sacrificing the quality of fights for something that could very well end up being (and this will be the only way that Lesnar wins this fight, a hug fest).
I like and respect you Josh, but this is a hardcore of hardcores post. It’s a business. Lesnar moves PPVs. There’s no real top ten and anywebsite that has one is just trying to draw hits for ads while playing pretend fight ranker. This is not nor will it ever be a sport that rewards the next guy in line Werdum types (I’m not saying you said that, just saying though).
I guess it’s just a philosophical difference, but I always find the hardcore view of this sport shocking when I look online. Then I remember that pretty much everything has a 5% base that feels this way about their product.
LOVE you writing and respect the opinions, but I disagree on this one. Everyone who follows MMA should have to subscribe to Meltzer’s Observer. You get a total look at all angles and what really drives all the decisions made. I mention this as that’s where I turned the corner and why things happen in MMA and sports in general the way they do.
Brock gets a shot. Stop complaining. Whether he deserves one or not, he will have to win to prove he is champion. Randy was less deserving of a shot when he lost at LHW, retired, came out of retirement and then got an immediate shot against Tim Sylvia. No one complains that Randy was not deserving because he beat Sylvia then beat Gonzaga. For Lesnar to be champion he will first have to beat Randy then the winner of Nog/Mir. If he doesn’t win, he isn’t champion. If he does, beating Randy and Nog/Mir will make him deserving.
I acknowledged the logic, John. I know why they’re doing it, but it’s going to be a crappy fight, and that’s not what they should be using Brock’s fame to do.
Dave, you’re right that Randy didn’t deserve a shot at Sylvia, and Nog wouldn’t have deserved a fight with Randy if he had challenged for the title with only that win over Herring.
As for Lesnar’s status. If he beats Randy, that’d be great for his career, but he’ll still be out of the top five, as far as I’m concerned, because there are so many guys who deserve to be ahead of him.
Brock gets a shot, sure, but there are other guys who should get it first. I’m assuming this will make some HW fighters feel like some of their efforts are in vain when an ex-WWE wrestler comes in and gets a shot after three fights. Business is business, but you need to balance everything properly and that seems to be the hardest part.
Josh, you’re writing this article as if the UFC is a meritocracy. It’s not, never has been and probably never will be. It’s 100% about PPV buys. To write that “passing over more deserving guys is disrespectful” is silly. In a perfect world you’d be right but every single reader of your column (or 90%+) is a hard core fan and as such (most likely) recognize it’s about a massive PPV event between 2 huge stars, it’simply not about who deserves it and to suggest that it is is just plain silly. The other fighers you mention in fact do “deserve” a shot before Lesner but only barely. There isn’t a candidate that really “deserves” a shot so a Lesner shot is really not a stretch.
Josh, judging from all the comments, I’ll say that everybody understands your sentiments but its business. It makes dollars so it definitely makes sense. Couture’s return is big news. If he were fighting Werdum, only Couture would appear on ESPN. Both Lesnar and Couture were on ESPN the next day.
While some HW fighters may feel disrespected, I’m sure they understand that Lesnar brings people to the arenas.
Yeah, many people would be pissed if Kimbo was in the UFC with the same record and got a title shot. Both Lesnar and Kimbo paid their dues in different ways. Marketing and Branding. Lesnar and Dana White are going to milk his WWE fame for all its worth. Kimbo on the other hand, created a brand via unorthodox and probably illegal methods.
MMA and boxing rarely matches up contenders who deserve a title shot. In addition to that the contestants actually pick and choose who they will fight. For different reasons fighters avoid Machida, Anderson Silva, Sylvia, Liddell, Fedor, etc.
Hey, Kimbo vs Ken Shamrock is stupid, but I will watch it for free! And I am not missing Couture-Lesnar at UFC 91.
Everybody, I said in the article, and I’m getting sick of repeating this in the comments, that I understand why the UFC is doing this. I know that there’s alot of money involved, I know that alot of people care about the fight, but the fact is, it’s a terrible matchup.
Nepal, your comment bugs me a little because, while it’s true that the UFC isn’t a meritocracy, there’s nothing even marginal about Lesnar’s standing as a contender.
You think that Lesnar deserves a shot anywhere near as much as Werdum? Lesnar beat Heath Herring, which means he deserves a title shot about as much as Jake O’Brien.
If we’re going to have a fight fans care about, a fight that gets attention, lets have it be a good fight. Let’s have a built up, well trained Brock Lesnar fight Randy, not this hyper-muscular, techniqueless blob that we’ve seen show up.
In terms of milking Lesnar’s fans, if Lesnar loses another fight in the UFC (especially if he gets finished), his legitimacy is gone. I don’t give a crap who beats him, but it’s done, in terms of the hardcore fans and the analysts.
So why are they throwing him in with a guy who can do that to him?
Why not give Lesnar some pseudo-high profile fights to build up a highlight reel? Why not throw him on the main card against Cheick Kongo or Antoni Hardonk, someone that he’ll be able to showcase his groundnpound against?
It seems like a massive waste of a hype train to me to simply throw Lesnar on the card against someone who can beat him when he’s got this record.
Yes, I hate the fact that he’s getting a title shot, but we’re throwing away the legitimacy of what is potentially a very good competitor.
You guys are welcome to defend the business end of it, but this “money-now” bullshit is what costs alot of American companies their dominance in the long term, and I’m not just talking about fighting.
Terrible matchup?
Wrestler versus wrestler. One experienced MMA fighter against a beginner.
Vitor Belfort 4th MMA fight was against Tank Abbott who was already 10 fights deep. Mike Whiteheads 2nd and 3rd fight was against a very experienced Tim Sylvia who was already undefeated in 8 contests. B.J. Penn’s 2nd fight was against Din Thomas who had 13 MMA contests with ONE loss at the time. Oddly enough Penn won via (TKO)strikes. And technically you could not call Penn a well trained MMA fighter. And please don’t forget YOU CAN BE A GREAT MMA fighter, that specializes in ONE or two disciplines.
As far as having a built-up, well trained Lesnar fight Randy. Not to run with the party line, but Lesnar has years of experience training in wrestling. Spent about a year training before his first MMA contest. He has (3) contests under his belt. Heck, I’ll applaud Lesnar for stepping up and accepting challenges against VERY experience fighters.
Are you saying that Lesnar does not have technique? Note, while I think what some will call modern MMA is cool, I still would like to know can a great boxer beat a Muay Thai specialist? Or can a Muay Thai fighter KO a judo practitioner. So basically what I’m saying is that we really can not ignore Lesnar’s wrestling credentials. There are many very successful MMA fighters that specialize in one discipline.
As far as the legitimacy of a contender? There are very few legit contenders fighter for the title. Although Forrest beat Shogun, he lost to Jardine who beat the former champion. There’s an argument against his legitimacy towards a title fight . . . but wait, he beat the champion via Unanimous Decision. The only recent case for an undisputed legitimate contender for a title was Jon Fitch.
While I hated the idea of the Season 4 TUF contenders winning an automatic title shot but hey look what happened. Travis Lutter could have-would have-should have but Serra did. Everybody questioned Serra’s legitimacy and chances, even his fiance.
In the end I don’t see how legitimacy applies in the combat sports because many contests happen by chance or calculation. And they’re usually not justified by claims of legitimacy. There’s way too much politics going on behind the scenes to believe in any sense of legitimacy in contact sports. More and more I see evidence of “I’ll fight any one, any time” as pure bull. While fighters like Oscar De La Hoya has definitely fought more than his share of contenders, he definitely ducked many, including Mayweather who’s far more concerned about payday and whether his style matches up against . . . Margarito.
Maybe Joel Silva should post a comment about his frustrations in trying to put some matches together.
Vee, that’s a long post, so I’m going to try and be succinct in order to keep people from dying of boredom (though, you’re comments are always interesting and this is an interesting conversation).
I’ll get to my point about it being a bad matchup last, because it’ll get us back on topic.
You can applaud Lesnar for whatever you want. You can push his wrestling experience. This is a guy who’s been training for three or four years in full contact (which, any wrestler will tell you, is totally different than wrestling, even in the wresting department) challenging a guy with over a decade of experience.
The bit about being a very good fighter with a one or two style specialty is true, but if you look at the elite guys, none of them fight with one style anymore. Look at the champs in the UFC, look at Nog, Fedor, BJ, Georges, Anderson and so on. Even guys like Lyoto don’t buy that anymore.
If you want to answer the question about what styles are superior, then look at the evolution of the sport. I don’t feel like I need to say more than that. It’s really your aside, I agree with you, but I feel like we had an adequate reenactment of this in the early UFCs.
You’re right. There are a few legit contenders fighting for a title, Brock Lesnar is not one of them.
What about Marquardt? What about Stevenson? Those are just two examples, but there are plenty of fighters that actually earn their title shots in the cage. I don’t think Forrest was one of them, and I said so at the time.
I don’t know why you think that a fighter’s legitimacy isn’t important in their status as a contender. It follows, then, that any fighter who’s style matches up well with a champ should be given a title shot, and that’s a load of crap and you know it. There’s a reason why guys feel they have to win their way into contention, and if winning in the cage doesn’t have an impact on who gets the title shot, then what does that tell the fighters? What does giving Lesnar this shot tell Fabricio Werdum?
If Joe wants advice on how to make matchups, I have some ideas. He does a fine job alot of the time (I don’t complain about much), but this is a stupid call.
As for why this is a crappy matchup, its crappy because of the ways that Lesnar is going to fight, the only way he can fight.
Lesnar’s only out in this fight is going to be to the judges, in my mind. He couldn’t finish Herring, and so I don’t expect him to finish Couture. I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation.
The real problem is that unless Randy does pull of a crazy catch (like Mir did), he may end up resorting to the judges too.
This is a five round fight, and the only ways that Brock can win are to work around Randy (fighting off of the back foot) or by laying on top of him.
Yes, Brock Lesnar can win this fight by mashing his giant man-breasts into Randy’s face. He’s a physical freak of nature, and I acknowledge that. That, though, makes for a crappy fight. So unless Randy does what he did in the Tim Sylvia fight and topples the giant, we’re in for a slow paced night where two guys beg and plead with the judges.
That’s what I keep thinking when I look at this card, and I’m shocked that other people think it will turn out differently.
Let me clarify, while legitimacy is important in the eyes of the fans, especially hardcore fans, history has shown that many promoters and managers could really care less. I would say Dana doesn’t care, but some times he does and he has to work with what he has.
We can’t assume that Lesnar will fight the way he fought Herring or Mir. He may decide to engage Randy in a clinch and use knees, or possibly judo sweeps for takedowns. Ok, that’s a stretch, I don’t expect him to dig into GSP bag of tricks but he may try something different.
This fight may be slow and boring but there’s a strong chance Brock may decide to stand and use his considerable reach and strength advantage. I’ll just say this, I optimistically hope and pray fights bring surprises and excitement. I’m hoping Brock shows a more well-rounded game, I hope Couture executes a slick submission instead of using dirty boxing in the clinch for a takedown. You never know.
What does it tell Werdum, Nog, Carwin, etc.??
It tells them that in an contact sports you need a couple of things to succeed and get the big payday like exciting wins, character, ability to market the fight, and a brand name.
I think people will enjoy Brock crushing Randy or Randy pummeling Brock. Imagine their fight looking something like GSP-Fitch but with either guy getting the upperhand each round. While Brock is really a super-heavyweight, I think he said it best when he said “People want to see real big heavyweights dominate,” or something to that effect.
In the end, I really think you and everybody will enjoy the fight. Hey, I’m excited!
I know what you meant about legitimacy, Vee, and I agree with you. And I agree that Dana doesn’t seem to care (in this matchup).
You’re right, we can’t assume, but until I have evidence that he is changing his training methods, I’m going to assume that objects at rest tend to stay at rest and egos training stupidly will continue to train stupidly.
I agree, but I think that this has the potential to be boring even standing up. I hope Brock shows a well rounded game, too. I would love to see him fight the good fight and make this a war, but if history is any indication, that’s not what’s going to happen. We seem to agree on that.
What exciting wins does Lesnar have outside of the WWE? What character does Brock Lesnar have besides the one he played on TV?
I agree with you about marketability, but that doesn’t mean he deserves this fight. (and I think you do agree with me on that one)
I can’t imagine this fight being like GSP-Fitch because Lesnar isn’t as talented nor as exciting as either of those guys. We’ll see if he’s improved, we’ll see if he’s going to prove me wrong. I’d love it i he did. I’d love to be wrong and for this to be a FOTY candidate, but it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be.
As for big heavyweights pounding each other, I don’t think that Butterbean vs. Zuluzihno (or CroCop vs. Bob Sapp) should be at the top of a card just because there’s going to be alot of jiggle.
I want to see good fighters go to war. I don’t give a crap if their heavyweights or middleweights or bantamweights. Just show me a scrap and I’ll be happy. (hell, show me two midgets really scrapping, and I’ll be happier than watching a fat-boy hugfest)
Complaining about this is silly. Werdum, Velasquez, Carwin, etc are all zero added buys. I thing Randy-Nog would have been the best starting point, but the wheels were already in motion for the Mir fight. This fight makes UFC more money and gets MMA more exposure than any fight possible, possible exception being Kimbo in the cage with Randy or Brock. Where anywhere does it say UFC has to follow a contendership ladder? With this fight and the possible Rampage/Wandy fight this show will be the closest thing since PRIDE we’ve seen. From an entertainment standpoint, that’s a very good thing.
It doesn’t say the UFC has to follow a contendership ladder, but it’d be nice if they didn’t take a guy with zero legitimacy and put him in the cage with a legend.
It’d be nice if people (especially the people in charge) gave a crap about legitimacy. We might see better fights this way.
This crappy match making is one of the many reasons why the heavyweight division is in shambles right now.
the heavyweight division is on life support. it needs this big-name fight. dana needs to reel in his ego and open his wallet to save the division. in the new issue of playboy, he claims his 10% stake in the ufc is worth $200 MILLION. need proof? cro cop – 2 losses, fired. sylvia and arlovski – asked for more money, fired. fedor – wanted to get paid so dana told him to get bent. randy left because dana wouldn’t spend the money he needed to in order to get couture a quality opponent. how can you brag that you are woth $200 million, then pay someone $5,000 to get his brains bashed in for your amusement???? see: kalib starnes.
furthermore, if dana keeps running all of the other mma organizations out of business, it’s only going to thin the talent pool even more. ufc puts on a free anderson silva fight simply to steal affliction ppv buys? what a dick move. the man who saved the ufc is now putting nails in it’s coffin.
This division doesn’t need a big name fight. I big name fight is an adrenaline shot in a cancer patient. It needs legitimate contenders that will make fans excited about this division again. Arlovski LEFT. Sylvia LEFT. CroCop is the only one you’re right about.
As for Dana’s stupidity about talking about his money, it is what it is. Dana will run his mouth, and all of us must go into the que sera sera phase.
How does running the other organizations out of business thin the talent pool? The fighters don’t go anywhere, but if Dana doesn’t take advantage of those floating contracts, he’s making a huge mistake, and that’s exactly what he did after the Pride buyout.
I agree with you, though, about Dana screwing over this division. He has handled it really, really stupidly.
Dude…
It isn’t a dick move, it is a business move. Affliction lost viewers because of the Silva fight on Spike. The same thing happens at Wal-Mart and Target all of the time. You see the Subway 5 dollar foot long commercials, then a few weeks later Quiznos had something slightly better? It is all about the money. Every major business does this.
As far as thinning the talent pool… I don’t see it. If the UFC pushes everyone out of business they have to fight somewhere… Not all can teach math or be a cop, they want to fight, and if the UFC is the best place that is where they will go. If Affliction goes under and another viable option isn’t around, do you really see them not fighting instead of returning to the UFC?
Zuffa and Dana knew the heavy weight division was dwindling fast. Next thing you know they are putting on a fight that could be the biggest in UFC history (Randy vs Brock).
So Josh do you think this fight will ruin UFC? You say you do not like Brock Lesnar and you are truly showing it with your articles and posts. What ever happened to subjective writing from the media? There probably has never been subjective writing ever. But that is really beside the point. It is your oppinion and apparently lots of Hardcore MMA fans don’t agree with your articles or explanations why. Does Rashad Evans deserve a title shot? Just curious to how you will answer that question.
To say Lesnar is still not in the top 5 after he beats Couture is just crazy talk. I think one reason this fight needs to happen now is because face it Randy isn’t getting any younger and this is the biggest fight the UFC can give us right now. It may not be fair that Lesnar is getting the shot but it isn’t about fair. I think most of all it is unfair to Couture. I feel sorry for him, mostly because Dana white is a Dick. Believe it or not just because someone is big and strong doesn’t mean they are going to win so if Lesnar wins this fight it will mean something.
There are lots of guys in the UFC right that are one dimensional. I’ll name a few Henderson(Last fight versus Palhares anyway), Liddell, Palhares, Heck you could say Tim Syliva is one dimensional. When Lesnar wins I’m sure you still won’t like him but whether you want to believe it or not If he gets better Submission defense and adds some submissions of his own he may be unstoppable.
The facts show that Brock Lesnar doesn’t deserve a title shot. I put my personal bias out there because it’s well known, but the fact that Lesnar has three career fights and one of them is a loss is a clear demonstration of the fact that he doesn’t deserve to be fighting for a title.
I don’t think Rashad deserves a title shot more than Lyoto Machida. If Machida and Thiago Silva weren’t in this division, then yes, I would see Rashad as a contender. Still, two of Rashad’s last three fights were terrible performances, and I don’t think it’s fair to grant him a title shot on the basis of one fight (though he did take advantage of that chance). I’d like to see Rashad fight once more, but I think giving him a title shot is far more defensible, far more logical, than Lesnar.
If Lesnar beats a Randy Couture that is out of shape and weak, then I won’t consider him a top fighter. I have a hard time considering him a top fighter when he has a loss to Mir (who’s low top ten, at best). Obviously, there’s an argument there, but when you look at the guys who are top five (Fedor, Couture, Nogueira, Arlovski, Barnett and other arguables like Sylvia), at least they have some consistency.
If Brock Lesnar shows a submission game, it will change the way I see him as a fighter. If he shows that he’s making an effort to learn jiu-jitsu and to do more than coast on his athleticism, then I’ll change my tune. The fact is, he didn’t do that in the fight with Herring, and I was disappointed with that.
He’s a fantastic athlete, and I’ve said it again and again and again, but he’s training like an idiot.
Henderson is not a one dimensional fighter, and if you think that then you should go back and watch the rest of his fights. Liddell and Sylvia I’ll agree with (though I don’t know why you included Palhares, as he’s hardly one of the more mainstream fighters). So what? We’re starting to see these fighters phase out. Sylvia and Liddell both seem to be coming to the end of their careers, and there’s a reason for that.
Hey John, Just an FYI. Lesnar was actually scheduled to Fight Kongo in UFC 91. It wasn’t only until Couture came back to the UFC that this changed. I guess it is a shame that Couture couldn’t have came back a day after the UFC 91. Then maybe Lesnar would deserve to fight him a little more if he destroyed Kongo. Your thoughts?
Sorry I meant Josh. What events are you looking forward 2? You going to watch the Kimbo v/s Shamrock? I’m sure it will be crap but it is free so I will be watching it.
I agree that if Lesnar had beaten Kongo he would have deserved this shot a little more, but still not more than Werdum.
I’m not looking forward to Kimbo vs. Shamrock, because I don’t like Kimbo and I think he’s going to win (this is his third, of four, opponents over 40, which is kind of sad).
I enjoyed Dream 6 alot, and I’m looking forward to the Sengoku card (I talk about why a little bit in the podcast), despite Roger dropping off the card.
Oh, and the WEC event in November, that’s going to be awesome.
As for the fights that are on this card, I’m looking forward to Wanderlei and Rampage, KenFlo vs. Joe Daddy and Quarry vs. Maia.
I heard Wanderlei and Rampage may be delayed which to me is a shame. Also They announced Arvloski is now on the card with Kimbo v/s Shamrock. I wonder if that means Fedor will be fighting the baby face assassain in Jan?
I’m not surprised that Wanderlei vs. Rampage is going to be delayed. With Quinton’s issues, I kind of figured there might be something, but I hope that it will happen.
I’d love to see Fedor vs. Barnett, especially given their two huge recent wins. I think that Josh is the top heavyweight in the world that Fedor hasn’t fought (behind Noguiera), but I also think that Barnett has the best skills for fighting Fedor.
He’s got the only ground game that I think can give Fedor any problems, given his wrestling abilities. I mean, I don’t think he will, but it’s a possibility, so we’ll see. That’s a fight I would be really excited for.
i think we should all just not buy this event. show dana white that we dont eat from his hand show him that what sells is what the fans want so if your not happy about that match up dont buy the pay per view thats the only way to get the point across. i understand that its a business but to me its sounds like dana picks who he wants to be the next star, an a 1 and 1 record is not good enough for a title shot. so all in all we can all show dana that this is not going to be a great money maker if we all dont buy this shit.
Sounds like a plan, Johnny. I’ll watch the whole event the next day on mmacore!
I hope Randy get’s a beaten, trying to take off to do movies while he is the champ. His most exciting fight was getting knocked out by chuck liddell.
F.H, FYI Randy did not “take off to do movies” as you wrote. He was in legal limbo with the UFC and thus had some time off as a side effect. But more importantly F.H, so what if a fighter pursues other ventures outside the ring. There is no law or rule saying they can’t do whatever the hell they want and I hardly see how making a movie changes anything about Randy as a fighter. Your logic (if you can call it that) is way off.
My god dude tone down the MMA snob routine a bit.
As for the Randy & Brock fight; I am excited to see the fight however I agree with the notion that Lesnar probably does not deserve the fight at this point in his career.
I predict Couture to come out on top.
Randy had a year off, and the fact that he didn’t spend the year training, in my opinion, says a lot about Randy.
Fedor sat in legal limbo for a long time. He spends a good deal of time waiting for matchups and for opponents. He’s in the gym while he’s waiting.
You’re right, you can do whatever the hell you want, but if Randy goes running off to handle this movie bllsh*t instead of focussing on his training, the wheels are going to fall off his career just like they did with Chuck Liddell.
I predicted Couture coming out on top too, and if wanting fighters to actually work out regularly and care about getting better is snobbish, then you bet your ass I’m an MMA snob. Honestly, though, I’m a realist.
This sport is about learning constantly, and if you aren’t learning, you will fall behind. I don’t think Randy has to worry about that with Brock, but he does with Nogueira and Mir.
hey geniuses, Couture isnt the only one in ufc doing movies…Forrest Griffin and a few as yet unnamed fighters are doing an underground fight movie with Tim Allen…..yes, Tim Allen….Im NOT kidding, Tim Allen
Oh, and by the way…. Forrest Griffin did not deserve the actual title…thats twice ive seen AWFUL decisions in TITLE FIGHTS…when hughes won the title against newton by a DOUBLE KO (bullshit), and forrest winning a TITLE by simply hanging in there with the champ. just cuase you go the distance, doenst mean you deserve the championship when the fight was a little too close to call – i would have called it a draw, and set up a rematch.
one more thing….Kimbo was a joke to real fans and fighters, and got knocked the F*ck out by a guy with pink hair.
and now it seems that the Elite XC is done for becuase there major draw just got beat like Glass Joe from Punch Out.
I beleive the UFC has their very own Kimbo now. His name is Brock Lesnar.
El Douche, you’re preaching to the converted. I agree about the Griffin decision, I agree about Kimbo and I’m just as annoyed with Forrest for doing that SVU episode and whatever other crappy acting gigs he has coming up.
Josh
We are going to have to simply agree to disagree on this one. For the life of me I cannot at all see how filming something for TV is taboo in your eyes. Do you consider the TUF series on Spike TV in the same category as filming a movie? If so then stop the presses, because it is totally detrimental to their progress as fighters and they should all be ashamed of them selves. I mean how dare any human being to do multiple things in their lives, at one time even!!!! These fighters should have no social life, no aspirations of their own, and should be locked in the gym for life so that they can train and appease the MMA snobs and only be let out for fight night. Would that make you guys happy?
You know it’s a good thing Jordan, Woods, Jeeter, Bryant, Manning, and Shaq have never made tons of commercials, endorsements, full length feature films, numerous video games, countless charity events, appearances, magazine covers, quest cameos in films because if they did they would end up like poor Chuck Liddell and their careers would have never reached the pinnacle of stardom and athletic dominance. OK I’ll stop now with the sarcasm, but hell, even our own Forrest Griffin won the UFC LHW belt after appearing on the Law and Order series and was enjoying fame and popularity I’m sure he never saw coming.
There are few personalities in MMA as dynamic as Randy Couture and it was only a matter of time before things like this started to happen for him. As for Fedor; I mean can you really picture Fedor acting? I can’t because he just doesn’t have the personality for it from what I can tell. That is neither a good or bad thing it just simply “is”. These fighters are insanely popular and there is a lot of money to be made from and for them and their families and I guarantee the fighters will pick putting food on the table for their loved ones over trying to pander to a very small portion of MMA elitists that for some reason have christened themselves all knowing and seeing in the world of MMA.
You guys are going to have to open your eyes and realize that the world of MMA is evolving, for better or worse, but it is evolving. The argument that Chuck has been on a down turn because of participation in the media is unfounded and purely speculation and is a weak attempt to try and validate your argument. I see this all the time by people trying to validate their claims. Maybe Chuck lost because he wasn’t the better man those nights and there wasn’t any amount of living in the gym that would have changed that. However I don’t know that for sure and neither does anyone else. Chuck has lived the party lifestyle since before anyone knew his name and he will probably continue long after.
In closing, Randy is the consummate professional and I cannot see him staying out of the gym for any real length of time and that should make all of us happy.
Oh and one more thing, you guys cannot be serious on the Griffin decision are you? I mean I know Griffin doesn’t quite pander to the MMA elitists because 1). he wasn’t a Pride star 2), he was on TUF, but he did beat Jackson that night and everyone saw it. It amazes me how some people can put on the blinders like that out of bias.
Even when Griffin beat Shogun I read everything from prior injuries to the fight being paid off as to why their beloved Pride Shogun was being by an obviously inferior species TUF UFC fighter.
I wanted Jackson to win the fight actually because I like Jackson as a fighter but even saying that it was clear Griffin won that fight – period.
I may be the outcast regarding Griffin around here, but I thought he won his fight with Jackson. As with any fight that goes to the judges, some people are just not going to be happy with the result.
As far as acting and MMA stars, I think MMA fighters should stick to fighting unless they have legit acting skills. I haven’t seen Griffin in the SVU episode yet, but I know that Couture isn’t exactly award winning material. Everyone who becomes somewhat well known wants to jump into every possible industry whether it’s clothing, acting, or charity work, but it’s typically only done because a goofy marketing agent wants both of them to make more money.
Leo, you’re totally missing the point.
My problem with Forrest doing this stuff is that he’s not training. Other athletes in other sports are different. They have an off season. MMA does not (that’s actually one of the reasons why I like this sport).
Forrest fought a good fight, but it was a tight decision and I didn’t see it the same way as the judges. That’s fine. He’s the champ now, and I respect that. That doesn’t mean I think he deserved the title shot to begin with (I am picking him over Rashad, though).
I don’t care if fighters stay in the gym all the time. I don’t. I go out and party on weekends and so do plenty of great fighters. But if they want to start acting careers, then they shouldn’t try and fight at the same time.
Shaq shooting a commercial for Sprite or Nike or whatever is fine with me, and MMA fighter’s shooting commercials is fine to, but doing a movie is different.
My problem with Chuck showing up on Blade or Forrest doing an episode of SVU actually wasn’t that they weren’t in the gym, and I suppose I should clarify that. My problem with it was more that they are bad actors.
I thought this was about Brock Lesnar’s title shot.. He didnt work for it, it was handed to him as an early Christmas present. He just got lucky, with a grazing punch. Not sure why it affected Randy but he has taken some pretty good shots without it damaging him too much. Look at the Tim Sylva/Couture fight. Brock should not have been given a title shot, and he will most likely loose what he didnt earn in his next one or two fights.
if any of you have seen brock lesnars other fight you would know they will not be boring or slow, compared to other heavyweight brock actually has the speed and the stamina so doubt his fight will get boring……if u guys actually paid some attention, like with herring. Herring was tired out quickly and made it a boring fight and brock just capatalized on that and pounded his sorry ass on the floor…….people like kimbo who have never put in the work, and even herring (he looked out of shape) shouldnt be allowed to fight againts top notch guys who actually put in the work to learn and improve themselves. You actually think the brock and Kimbo fight will be good, dont think so…..brock will eat him and spit him back out. Look how long brock has been an athelete….compare that to a street fighter who iam sure doesnt even have a resume like brocks. If i was brock i would be pissed if they put me in with kimbo, kimbo brings nothing other than being a streetfighter.
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