The Man Who Should Fight Fedor
By Josh Stein on Aug 23, 2008
I realize that Fedor Emelianenko, the undisputed king of heavyweight MMA, has dropped off the upcoming Affliction card with a hand injury, but we all know that he’ll be back. He always comes back.
The truth is, though, when Andrei Arlovski was announced as his opponent I was curious about the logic behind it. There’s certainly something nice about seeing the former UFC champion fighting Fedor, the same sort of cross-promotional excitement of the matchups I dreamt of between the UFC and the late Pride FC (Rest in Peace).
Still, Arlovski is hardly the best matchup for Fedor, and it seems clear that the fighter who should be taking on Fedor is someone who can handle him in one area of the game, giving the opportunity, on some level, for a challenging matchup.
The truth is, if you put in two well-rounded fighters, and one fighter is better at everything than the other guy, the match is going to be predictable, and that’s the issue with Fedor vs. Arlovski.
With Fedor and Sylvia, at least there was some belief that big Timmy might have a slight edge in the standup and have that reach advantage. Clearly, that wasn’t an issue, but there was some potential for a matchup there. It seems clear, at least to me, that Andrei is going to provide less of a challenge standing up than Tim did.
While I do think that Andrei is a better groundfighter on the ground than Tim, we fall into that issue of general superiority. Sure, Andrei is better than Tim, but both of those guys are seriously outclassed by a wold champion sambo fighter like Fedor, and it’s not as though Andrei’s game, which is considered exotic and foreign by some standards in the game, is going to surprise Fedor. He’s not going to pull a Ryo Chonan flying scissor heel hook.
The right matchup, below the fold.
The fighter who should be matched up with Fedor, for lack of any alternative, seems to be Josh Barnett. I’m not sure that Barnett can get Fedor to the mat, and I’m not sure that Barnett’s submission game is in any way superior to Fedor’s, but it is different, and it has a chance, just like Tim’s striking had a shot. As much as it may fail, and I think it probably will, I think it provides more of a test to Fedor to give him an opponent with so much grappling experience.
Fedor is a warrior, and he’s not going to be beaten by a fighter who matches up badly with him, it’s that simple. At the top tier, all of the fighters have great skillsets and a great commitment to the sport, but there is really no one in the division that matches up well with Fedor, since no one can handle both his hands and his groundgame, or, from what we’ve seen, either one by itself. (much less both together)
It remains to be seen what it will take to beat Fedor, but it seems, at least to me, that Barnett has a much better shot at figuring that out than Andrei does.
I agree. I think of all the current challangers to Fedor’s throne, Barnett has the best shot, but I would still take Fedor against everyone right now.
I can’t believe you think Fedor’s striking is superior to Arlovski’s. Sylvia’s speed and reactions were exposed by Couture who is not exactly a speed demon but has legitimate well rounded skills. If you look at Sylvia’s opponents, the only halfway decent striker besides Couture was Arlovski. Supposedly Arlovski had a knee or leg injury in their 3rd bout which led to the boring fight. Now it’s possible that Fedor is quick enough to get inside on Arlovski and I’m not sure what the reach advantage would be but it’s also possible that Arlovski will actually come to fight because he knows that he doesn’t hold an overwhelming striking advantage on Fedor and will therefore be willing to trade blows without appearing afraid of being taken down. While Fedor is clearly a better submission artist, Arlovski is no slouch in the wrestling department and might be able to survive on the ground due to his sambo background. Everyone thinks Arlovski has a weak chin because Sylvia knocked him out and that is ridiculous.
So while Fedor should clearly be favored, anything more than -300 and I’ll take AA.
You’re right on the money, Josh. I had always hoped Fedor and Barnett would have fought in PRIDE. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen. Barnett is clearly the guy who deserves a shot at Fedor now. It is an interesting, unpredictable fight.
sounds like mr. stien has already guaranteed a victory for barnett over arlovski. look who have been fedor’s toughest opponents so far. cro-cop and arona. smaller quicker hws that can match fedors speed. even little matt lindland cut fedor and had him holding on to the ropes for dear life. (iknow what they both weighed for the fight, and fedor still dwarfed matt) fighters with good head and foot movement,quick hands and one punch ko ability (sound familiar) and a good sprawl and takedown defense will give fedor his toughest fight imo. arlovski and barnett will fight on oct 11 so that should? answer your question. im sure you dont think andrei has a chance against a great former PRIDE fighter like barnett, but if andrei wins, will you still think this? btw who’s fedor fighting on nye this year, andre the giants dead corpse. lol!
b.w. I’m not guaranteeing a victory for Barnett, though I am picking him to win. If he gets this fight to the ground, I think he has a pretty obvious edge.
“Smaller, quicker heavyweights” get controlled and smashed into the ground. We’ve seen that in many of Fedor’s fights. The man has incredible speed, but his power is equally as freakish.
Fred and Curtis, I think it will happen eventually, as long as Affliction continues its commitment to putting together awesome cards.
Denny, I think it’s going to be a decent fight, but from your post it sounds like you agree, because you’re not talking about how Andrei is going to win, you’re talking about how he’s going to survive.
i meant than andrei is smaller than tim,choi,hunt and coleman. andrei is actually the bigger fighter of the 2 andrei/fedor. lhws like randleman, and linland get squashed be cause it is a mis- match. i compare andrei’s size to that of cro-cop and big nog, 2 guys that both went the distance with fedor, and i think andrei is bigger ,stonger and faster than both of these 2. i guess you can tell from my post that i think andrei will beat barnett. andrei always does well against fighters that actually try to win like barnett and unlike werdum and sylvia. we’ll see come oct 11.
Sure, Andrei is bigger and faster than both of those guys, but he doesn’t have CroCop’s striking and he doesn’t have Nog’s jiujitsu. Both of those guys, from the perspective of their skillsets, had an area where they could compete with Fedor.
You can think Andrei will beat Barnett. There’s certainly an argument and there’s certainly an out for Andrei in that fight.
I think Andrei has an out against Barnett.
I don’t think he has one against Fedor.
no chance against fedor? to bad fedor hurt his hand (hey! is human afterall) or we would be seeing if that is true or not in oct. think ishii poses much of a challenge to fedor?
This isn’t exactly Fedor’s first hand injury. I mean, he had reconstructive surgery after the Zulu fight.
I’m not sure who you’re talking about, since there’s no Ishii who’s a top ten heavyweight. (and no, I don’t think anyone who hasn’t established them self as a top fighter in the HEAVYWEIGHT division is going to stand a snowball’s chance in hell against Fedor)
Ya Barnett seems like the most challenging match up. But obviously Affliction wanted to go with Arlovski’s name power from just being in the UFC.
But that’s just the way things go. I kinda thought of it as if they put Arlovski in now and do good numbers that just leads to them being around that much longer to finally get to the good match-ups like Fedor-Barnett.
BTW- Fedor-Arlovski doesn’t look as illogical compared to the recently announced Thomson-Bowman main event fight does it?
Yeah, I think Arlovski does have a good draw. That’s not how I think, personally, as someone who’s going to watch anyway, though it does seem like a fair argument. Barnett has a huge Japanese draw, so I’m not really sure how that works (though the Japanese are like me, they’ll tune in anyway, as long as it’s Fedor).
You are right, though, about the Thomson-Bowman main event. Then again, Cage Rage has Misaki vs. Riggs headlining their September card, and that seems pretty incredibly one-sided to me.
ishii is the judo gold medalist from japan that recently challenged fedor. i was just being sarcastic. i guess that doesnt translate well in writing. it has been repoted though that fedor will fight a sumo or a judo legend on nye in japan so its not completley out of the question.
No, B.W., it’s funnier now, I just missed that.
Obviously, he’d get killed.
Still, when I heard that he was fighting a Sumo or Judo guy, there was only one name that came to mind: AKEBONO!
i would rather see fedor akebono than ishii. your’e right fedor would plow through ishii worsr than big dummy. akebono is one big a$$ dude with a ton of sumo experience,so he has alot of balance and knows how to explode. the big question would be, can he take a punch? remember way back when in the ufc when a 220 lb kieth hackney fought a 800lb manny yarbourough. the first open hand slap that hackney landed folded yarbourough like a lawn chair. he even admitted that he had never been hit flush in the face like that (who would try?) and didnt know what to do. at least akebono would be used to being slapped, but being punched in the nose by fedor is a different story.
The problem with this fight is that we know Akebono can’t take a punch. I mean, Akebono got submitted by Giant Silva, so he’s pretty much done against Fedor. If that fight happens, he’s going down Zulu style. Though, that’d be a fun fight to watch, just like Zulu was.
I think the last thing Affliction needs to do in the US market is freakshow promoting like Fedor-Akebono. Plus most American fans, aside from the few pro-wrestling nerds who remember the Mania sumo match, have no idea who Akebono is and probably don’t care to either.
If you want to do a Fedor freak show in the US, they’d be better off going with Eric Esch or Bob Sapp, (particularly Esch for mainstream attention), than Akebono.
AMY. Fedors nye fight wont be under the Affliction banner, it will be for Dream in japan. fedor is not signed exclusively with Affliction and can fight for other organizations. this is why zuffa insists on exclusive contracts, so freakshows like this doesnt happen. Fedor is 1 of the few fighters that can do this and still remain popular and still retain alot of respect. for whatever reason i dont know.i for one would like to see Fedor fight top hw contenders on a more consistant basis, but his fans and alot of the press seem to always give him a pass on this. oh well.
Amy, I know that Affliction should avoid those kind of matchups. Fortunately, they seem interested in giving us great quality, and that makes me very happy, as much as I’d like to see Fedor pound Akebono.
I think lots of people would like to see Fedor vs. Butterbean/Sapp. Still, I’d rather see Kimbo vs. Butterbean as a co-main event on an Affliction card, to create a great draw. That’d be a hysterical fight.
B.W. Affliction wants him to fight for other organizations, to promote his WAMMA title and to show that it’s the only real heavyweight title right now.
I don’t know what you call Brock Lesnar, but he seems like a freakshow to me. The UFC should hardly be avoiding pulling freaks into their heavyweight division, they should use whatever talent they can get.
You don’t know how Fedor can have freak matchups and still be respected? Because there’s no one else for him to fight. That was the point of this article. Barnett is the only guy left for him to fight.
brock lesnar a freakshow? c’mon thats a bad comparison. he just manhandled herring in only his 3rd mma fight! the same herring who went the distance with fedor and big nog. you and the rest of the fedor fanatics dont think that there is anyone left for him to fight, but most fans disagree. he HAS’NT fought all the best fighters there are. im not going to name them all, because i dont want to get into a long debate(pi$$ing contest) with you. i know every name i bring up you will scoff at and tell me that he presents no challenge to fedor. i think your stuck on barnett because thats the only good hw he never fought/beat in pride. i guess since fedor does’nt have any challenges left, he should just fight a cardboard cut-out of himself. and no, brock isnt one of the fighters who i think would present a challenge to fedor………yet!
I know about NYE, but I’d think Affliction/WAMMA would have some kind of ability to chime in on Fedor’s fight match-ups.
The freakshow match-uo isn’t so much about respected, because I’m totally aware it’d be well respected in the Japanese scene, and from a pro-wrestling promoting apprieciation it’d be in that light aswell.
But my thinking is the US generalized fans are gonna have a harder time buying into Fedor if he’s always fighting gimmick opponents.
If I was Affliction or M1 I’d go for Fedor-Barnett on NYE, which would be pretty big in Japan and legimate to American fans. If Barnett would actually beat him, that’d also set up a huge draw rematch that they could have here. At least that would be my fantasy promotion plan for things.
And on another note, I know Akebono is a excellant choice for the Japanese market. But my thinking is that if they cater exclusively to Japanese fans and on their premeire event, they’ll never make any good headway in the worldwide scene. Which IMO, is the most important thing for any MMA’s companies long-term sustainibility.
And BTW- My personal feelings are that Lesnar is most definately a freak show. They can’t bring up his glove size 20 times a show and not expect people to help but get that feeling.
He beat Heath Herring! Eric Esch beat James Thompson. It’s not that big a deal.
Herring did not go the distance with Fedor, that’s a factual error. He was removed from the fight at the end of the first because he was incapable of defending himself as a result of the asskicking he took. And we all know that it’s not the same Herring that went the distance with Big Nog.
There are plenty of names that I’ve seen thrown out in my other conversations that are interesting. People have brought up Antonio Silva and a few other fighters.
There are plenty of guys who can beat Fedor if they get 3 years to train for Fedor and Fedor ages a bit (Kongo, Hardonk and Lesnar are three that I won’t dispute). I’m talking immediate future, here.
Damn! i almost forgot. WAMMA is a joke! the only reason you give it any presendence at all is because fedor holds that belt. do you think if they award fighters from Affliction championship belts in the lhw, mw,ww,lw,fw divisions that they would be the only real champions over forrest, a.silva, gsp, bj and faber. not likely. right now, imo there is no REAL undisputed hw champ. if you dont believe me that wamma is a joke, check out their website and their rankings. they are laughable at best. you should at least get a good chuckle out of it.
AMY. i like your idea about fedor fighting barnett on nye, but it aint gonna happen. Affliction doesnt have a choice! they cant stop fedor from fighting whomever he wants on that night. he doesnt have an EXCLUSIVE contract with Affliction. your right about the fact that the american fight fans not buying into freakshows and good for them. i wouldnt put to much into what rogan and golberg say about brocks glove size, id put more into watching him fight and what he accomplishes and how he performs! herring was only his 3rd pro fight and was at least a top 15 hw in the world. eventually he will have to prove he can beat guys with great bjj, but give the guy a little time, he could get there. i can understand your point about brock being a headliner after only his 2nd and 3rd fight, but after the beating he gave herring (and the one he’s gonna kongo) he proved that he deserves the nrecognition. a hell of alot more than kimbo. thats the comparison i see most and dont agree with it.
WAMMA is a joke? Because the UFC Heavyweight division is so full of great contenders, right. They don’t have much in terms of other divisions, that’s true. They’ll get guys like Diaz and Noons and Shields and Lawler and Lindland and the rest of the disenfranchised world. You don’t think that Fedor is the undisputed champ. The guy beat the reigning UFC champ 3 times.
You think that Herring was a top 15 fight? He was two of his last 4, with one of those losses coming to a nobody, Jake O’Brien. He was not a top 15 fighter.
We’ll see how Lesnar does against Kongo. It’s supposed to be a perfect matchup for Lesnar, but I think there are alot of people underestimating the improvement in Kongo’s groundgame. We’ll see how that goes.
I do agree that he’s better than Kimbo. I won’t argue with that. But they both suck.
JOSH. scratch that what i said about wamma’s actual rankings. i hadnt seen them in a while and just checked them out again. they have been revised and are quite good. they only have one recognized champ, fedor at hw. it will be interesting to see who they name as their champs in the other weight classes.
if you think lesnar sucks, then why do you name him as one of the possible fighters that could beat fedor once he ages. fedor is like 30 right. how much does he have to age before this happens. 45. as far as herring goes, he just beat kongo! the fight was close and could have easily been a draw, but still herring is not a can. you really think kongo and atonio hardonk can evolve into better fighters than what arlovski is now. the hw division is not as bad in the ufc as people proclaim. they have 3 great up and comers in brock, cain valsquez, and shane carwin. mix them with some pretty good veterns like kongo,big nog, werdum, gonzaga (the best 1 rnd fighter in the world) and its not so bad. who’s better? certainly not elitexc. affliction only really has arlovski signed to anything longterm i belive. m1 has fedor. adreneline has sylvia and rothwell and isnt barnett still with world victory. if you combine all those orgs. they are better at hw than the ufc, but divide them and they will not add up to much.i hope that affliction stays around long enough to see a 3rd show and watch fedor fight the winner!
Glad you think so, and I agree that Fedor is the only real champ they have, but there will be others that are competitive, especially if they can get Gomi and Hansen on cards regularly.
I think Lesnar sucks, but I’m not going to say he doesn’t have potential.
The UFC has three prospects, all of whom are one style fighters (Carwin might be more than that, but it remains to be seen). I like Velasquez, and I’ve talked to him and seen him train in San Jose. He’s got a future, but he’s not as good as any of the serious guys in the top ten.
It’s not a matter of long term. There are plenty of great prospects on the open market, and the UFC is too stupid to sign them. That aside, if you look at the top five rankings, how many guys does the UFC have? I count 1. (Nog)
It’s an embarrasment for an organization run like that to call themselves the best while they only have 1 top heavyweight. Boxing promoters do that and its stupid.
i dont think the ufc is stupid. they decided to clean house at h.w. and rebuild at that division. they have been SMART enough to realize that the mma world doesnt revolve around the hw division. they lost randy,sylvia,tito,cro-cop,arlovski and the chance to sign fedor (for now) and have only gotten better by putting smaller fighters more in the spotlight like a.silva,gsp,penn and faber(still zuffa). you say that fedor is the best hw in the world and big nog is the only top 5 that the ufc has. fair enough. give it another year and we will see where things stand. good debate.
You’d think Fedor and his people would be smart enough to avoid a freak-show match themselves without Affliction’s voice. I hate to say but maybe Fedor wants an gimme for a big paycheck whenever he can get it.
And I hate to pile on but I haven’t been impressed with Brock either. And I don’t think he’ll ever be a “great” in MMA. Mostly because he has no real desire for the sport, no real passion for it. He plain and simple got into it for the cash, so there’s no motive for him aside from that. Which IMO, means he’s only ever gonna do just enough to get paid. He could lay his way to a championship with his size, but that isn’t gonna ever make him go down as a great.
IMO, MMA skill wise I haven’t seen anything impressive out of Brock so far. He’s an impressive wrestler, he’s an impressive size. But MMA skill wise he’s nothing impressive.
I don’t think the UFC is stupid, but sometimes smart people do stupid things. And what the UFC has allowed to happen to their heavyweight division is stupid.
The overall quality of their organization suffers for not having a heavyweight division, and regardless of how they try to market their fighters, it gives other organizations a huge opportunity to upstage them when they don’t have a solid heavyweight division. That’s what we’ve seen happen with Affliction.
^ I agree, just like in boxing, before the UFC pissed away their heavyweight division it was pretty much their premiere division. And even today, with the downslide of the HW class, what’s become the number featured division? Light Heavyweight.
There’s no two ways around it, it’s just kinda inherent in the fight game. Which is why what Zuffa let happen to their heavyweight weight class is absolutely ridiculous.
A good question that arises from that is if they had kept the best heavyweight competition, could they have potentially lured Fedor from Pride years ago and had his record run in their own promotion? They could’ve potentially missed the biggest boat in the sport had they not had their heads up their asses for so long. IMO, its one of their biggest promotional blunders to date.
AMY. you dont know fedors management. vlad finklstein and the boys only care about one thing and thats money. of course their taking the japan fight for a big easy paycheck. the ufc HAD all (almost) the best hws when trying to sign fedor. they randy,cro-cop, big-nog, arlovski, sylvia, and all the current hws they have now cept the young guys. Fedor and his management WOULD NOT sign an exclusive contract and the ufc wont sign anybody, any fighter, no matter who to a non-exclusive contract. i dont think fedor fears any fighter, but i do belive his managemnt is scared to death that he might get a loss on his vaunted undefeated record. dont worry once elitexc and affliction fold ( and believe me they will) the ufc will get back or sign the hws worth signing. i dont mean to sound so pro-ufc and anti-anyone else, but it is what it is. Affliction pretty much signed their own death warrent when they paid big tim 800k. they cant get tito now and have asked fighters to take a paycut since their 1rst show and most have refused. once you pay an athelete that much, they are always gonna want that much or more. if you dont like brock, you dont like him. im not gonna try and talk you into it, but you are very uneducated about him and his background and his desire. you think he is in mma only for the money? hell, he was the WWE’S hw champ and made a hell of alot more money to fake fight than to do it for real. if he was only it for the money, why leave pro-wrestling. those guys make a ton of cash. i dont see the correlation to the ufc’s hw division to pro boxings hw division. it’s like apples and oranges. pro boxing doesnt have 1 single orginization like the ufc has. they have dozens!
Amy, I agree with pretty much everything you said.
While I don’t find the 205 pound division to be the most interesting (I’m a huge fan of their 155 pound division), I do find that when I talk with my friends, who are casual MMA fans, that seems to be where most of the conversations happen.
They could’ve lured Fedor from Pride a long time ago, probably before he was a huge phenomenon in Russia, and they probably could have gotten that exclusive contract. (I doubt that his management would have been as hard about it if he wasn’t so dominant or if his rank wasn’t so undisputed) The real problem (and this is what people seem to forget) is that the UFC didn’t have the guys Fedor wanted to compete with. I mean, they had Sylvia and Arlovski, but Nogueira and CroCop made him much more marketable.
So, yes, for the right amount of money (not necessarily the most, but more than what Pride paid), the UFC could have had Fedor. Would he be the Fedor we know today? Probably not.
In fact, I don’t think he would be ranked #1 had he not fought in Pride, because people would care so much about Nogueira and CroCop and one of them (probably Nog) would have emerged as the #1 ranked fighter without losses to Fedor.
Of course, this is all speculation.
B.W., you admit in your comment that Fedor’s management doesn’t care primarily about money. They care about his independence and about his ability to keep his Russian fanbase happy.
Tim is good for a few more fighters, and I do see a fight with Ricco Rodriguez or Hidehiko Yoshida or (my personal choice) Mark Hunt in his near future, all of which would be great matchups for Affliction to push a new, upcoming fighter against Sylvia and offer us hardcore fans a good fight.
Lesnar may not care about the money, but my problem with him isn’t with his motivations for competing in the sport. My problem is that the guy doesn’t know how to train for this sport, and he doesn’t seem to give a rat’s ass about learning.
The UFC didn’t even have to contend with EXC or Affliction or Bodog or anyone for these contracts 12 months ago, and they still let their division go all to hell. There are plenty of free market contracts that the UFC is ignoring. Why? Because they don’t care about the division, and that’s a mistake.